AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: ANDREJ767 on August 19, 2010, 09:14:10 PM
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Hi,
I would like to ask if there are any chances to follow network traffic on my screen again (except paying for)?I think the price is not too high but might be other ways too - maybe those members who share their local traffic into the radarbox network most of the time should be rewarded with being able to follow network traffic for a while.Maybe a ratio time 2:1 would be fair (shared loclal traffic : spot network traffic)?Thank you in advance and even being without network trafiic right now I'm still very happy with this RB.
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I agree.
I am happy to upload data if I get something in return.
Its too expensive to see network traffic.
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Just have a look at PlanePlotter. This might be the one you are looking for.
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topic discussed many times in this forum, suggest doing a search as the answers not changed.
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topic discussed many times in this forum, suggest doing a search as the answers not changed.
Are you speaking on behalf of airnav on this ?
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It's good advice regardless. The topic has been discussed to death already.
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The answer hasn't changed as the above posts its been mentioned many times.
If the search on the forum doesn't bring back anything helpfull, try google search and limit it to our forum.
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I share on PlanePlotter also! I can share my RadarBox traffic along with my ACARS and HFDL traffic and I can also see all these modes from around the world for free! I can't do this on the AirNav network. I find the fact that after one year I would have to pay to see network traffic in a timely manor very unfair!
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Seems airnav are shooting themselves in the foot on this.
People are going elsewhere to share data.
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It has been proven in recent years that the best way to effect change from large organisations is by mass individual protest. Perhaps Airnav are now seeing the start of this.
Hopefully they will realise this before they really do shoot themselves in the foot. Who knows ?
And whilst we are on the subject why does the ANRB sw default to sharing ? Correct me if I am wrong but I don't recall Airnav giving any reason or justification as to why this forced functionality is in place. It makes ANRB users potential criminals as soon as they click on the start button. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
In summary I guess Airnav could end up with a bullet hole in their foot and the users with bitten hands ! Ouch !
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The answers to the above questions about whether we have explored that avenue, why we have chosen this way and others related to this have been done more than a dozens times in the past. Please search for them before you post, there is no point in discussing something which has been answered before and been done to death.
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The answers to the above questions about whether we have explored that avenue, why we have chosen this way and others related to this have been done more than a dozens times in the past. Please search for them before you post, there is no point in discussing something which has been answered before and been done to death.
I totally agree.
S.F
http://www.specsavers.co.uk/
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Well it obviously is still a problem for many new comers like myself and a lot of existing users or it would not continue to be discussed.
Brushing it under the carpet will not make it go away as my mum used to say.
It would be interesting how many of the installed user base are actually paying for this and how many are using 3rd party sharing sites / software.
?
Perhaps the way to go would be a one time payment (as per PP).
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Well it obviously is still a problem for many new comers like myself and a lot of existing users or it would not continue to be discussed.
Brushing it under the carpet will not make it go away as my mum used to say.
It would be interesting how many of the installed user base are actually paying for this and how many are using 3rd party sharing sites / software.
Perhaps the way to go would be a one time payment (as per PP).
We were all newcomers once! but we all knew what the score was about Network sharing when we bought the box - first year free then you pay if you want it.
It's like buying a car with a three year warranty. That's the deal and if things change and suddenly everyone is offering a 5 year warranty, well tough, that's the way it goes.
The same also applies to default data sharing setting, although personally I agree it should be default "off" but you can always get a "fix" if you feel so strongly about it.
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And whilst we are on the subject why does the ANRB sw default to sharing ? Correct me if I am wrong but I don't recall Airnav giving any reason or justification as to why this forced functionality is in place.
Why not search for the answer then? To quote a previous reply (http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=3245.msg30984#msg30984) from Airnav:
"Just to put it to bed we will not be changing the way the tick box works for shared data. Why? There are people will who will cause scare mongering for whatever reason to have the share data switched off (for no good reason) and hence yes it will cause a bad affect to the network. As they will continue to leave it off."
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It's the age-old inertia selling/opt-in/opt-out principle - make it more hassle for people to do what you don't want them to do (untick the box) than to do what you do want (leave it ticked).
There's really very little to add to this debate that hasn't been said before. Personally, I can live with unticking the box each time I start up RadarBox - I'm paying for the network, so as far as I'm concerned I don't owe AirNav anything in return.
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I assumed that Network users enjoyed a symbiotic relationship in so far as if nobody puts in, then nobody takes out.
For myself, on or off is pretty small beer and if my info. gives someone some pleasure (or even a shekel or two), you're welcome.
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I`m happy to share my info, mortgage repayments, utility bills.....
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And whilst we are on the subject why does the ANRB sw default to sharing ? Correct me if I am wrong but I don't recall Airnav giving any reason or justification as to why this forced functionality is in place.
Why not search for the answer then? To quote a previous reply (http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=3245.msg30984#msg30984) from Airnav:
"Just to put it to bed we will not be changing the way the tick box works for shared data. Why? There are people will who will cause scare mongering for whatever reason to have the share data switched off (for no good reason) and hence yes it will cause a bad affect to the network. As they will continue to leave it off."
Personally I wouldn't call that statement a reason or justification at all. Is that the best Airnav could offer ??
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Resistible force meets immovable object :-)
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And whilst we are on the subject why does the ANRB sw default to sharing ? Correct me if I am wrong but I don't recall Airnav giving any reason or justification as to why this forced functionality is in place.
Why not search for the answer then? To quote a previous reply (http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=3245.msg30984#msg30984) from Airnav:
"Just to put it to bed we will not be changing the way the tick box works for shared data. Why? There are people will who will cause scare mongering for whatever reason to have the share data switched off (for no good reason) and hence yes it will cause a bad affect to the network. As they will continue to leave it off."
Personally I wouldn't call that statement a reason or justification at all. Is that the best Airnav could offer ??
eggplant.
If your happy about sharing be happy, if your not switch it off and be happy
lets all be happy.
S.F
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And whilst we are on the subject why does the ANRB sw default to sharing ? Correct me if I am wrong but I don't recall Airnav giving any reason or justification as to why this forced functionality is in place.
Why not search for the answer then? To quote a previous reply (http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=3245.msg30984#msg30984) from Airnav:
"Just to put it to bed we will not be changing the way the tick box works for shared data. Why? There are people will who will cause scare mongering for whatever reason to have the share data switched off (for no good reason) and hence yes it will cause a bad affect to the network. As they will continue to leave it off."
Personally I wouldn't call that statement a reason or justification at all. Is that the best Airnav could offer ??
eggplant.
If your happy about sharing be happy, if your not switch it off and be happy
lets all be happy.
S.F
Interesting comment. FYI, I am happy.
Not sure what that has to do with my simple enquiry though.....
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Resistible force meets immovable object :-)
I think that probably sums it up very well Dave !
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Other one should be applied - Customer is KING.
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Other one should be applied - Customer is KING.
You can say that in general, but not in one breath with AirNav!
I never shared my data with A.N., for me this discussion is never closed, although A.N. would like to ofcourse!
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Harsh comment Jannuh and we think that's unfair on us.
We do listen and take on customer concerns but we do have to weigh that up with our business. If we followed "customer is king" to the book we would be selling items for last than half price and be bankrupt.
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It's also worth remembering that you get all the following update services from the Airnav servers for FREE:
1. Aircraft registrations details.
2. Aircraft photos.
3. Routes.
4. Weather METAR/TAF and QNH.
Maybe people would rather Airnav start charging for these as well (like GAS does with £25 per year for Active Display). I'm happy that these are all free, and the network is an optional extra charge.
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Fair point tarbat.
Though I think its the scale and frequency of the charge for network that is a problem.
If it was a one off like PP it would bring a lot of people back into the network.
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If it was a one off like PP it would bring a lot of people back into the network.
Agreed, but would that be a viable business model in the long term? Without a regular income stream, how would Airnav pay the monthly server costs, bandwidth, etc.
And remember, whilst PP is a one-off fee, that doesn't actually buy you the sharing service, note the COAA disclaimer that "The Internet sharing and multilateration features are to be regarded as experimental and may be withdrawn at any time." You could pay €25 for PP now, and find the sharing service removed the next day.
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The difference is that if you provide raw data to PP you pay zilch for the network.
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The difference is that if you provide raw data to PP you pay zilch for the network.
Irrelevant in a Radarbox forum - unless you've found a way of getting raw data from a Radarbox? And you still have to pay €25+vat for PP.
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Irrelevant in a Radarbox forum - unless you've found a way of getting raw data from a Radarbox? And you still have to pay €25+vat for PP.
How is it irrelevant?. You are discussing the matter of the principle of paying for a network whilst providing data to the network. RB users are providing data to the ANRB network and paying to use the same network. PP users don't. Simples!
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How is it irrelevant?.
It's irrelevant because you were talking about the fact that "if you provide raw data to PP you pay zilch for the network". The issue of providing raw data to PP is irrelevant in a Radarbox forum. If you don't provide raw data, then you can pay the annual MLAT fee.
If you've now moved onto a different point, then I won't disagree with you, PP offers access to a sharing network for a one-off fee, but that sharing service can be removed at any time, without any refund being offered. Airnav offer a network sharing service for a month/annual fee. So we all have a choice, which muse be good.
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It's irrelevant because you were talking about the fact that "if you provide raw data to PP you pay zilch for the network". The issue of providing raw data to PP is irrelevant in a Radarbox forum.
If you've now moved onto a different point, then I won't disagree with you, PP offers access to a sharing network for a one-off fee, but that sharing service can be removed at any time, without any refund being offered.
And how often is the ANRB network unavailable with without any refund being offered? All the complainants on here have made the same point, having to pay for a service which they get no reduction for if they subscribe data to it.
And I'll tell you something for nothing, Tarbat; the PlanePlotter network is never going to be withdrawn because it is the only one that allows users to track non-ADSB aircraft and if BEV were to think of giving up there would be enough people willing to raise the money to buy it from him.
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All the complainants on here have made the same point, having to pay for a service which they get no reduction for if they subscribe data to it.
You don't have to pay - it's a choice. If that means that Airnav can provide FREE aircraft registrations details, aircraft photos, routes, weather, etc. by charging for the network service, then I'm happy.
Sure, I'd like to have a cheaper network, or the option of a pay-per-view type service, but I would guess that as long as enough people are willing to pay the annual fee, then why would Airnav want to reduce their income stream.
You knew what the deal was when you bought your Radarbox - Airnav don't hide the fact that network sharing is expensive. If you don't like it, vote with your feet and don't pay. Simples.....
..... if BEV were to think of giving up there would be enough people willing to raise the money to buy it from him.
...... and still provide a free service?!!
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Thats the crux of the matter Chris, all users are free to do as they please. If they dont think the network provides good value for money they are free to go elsewhere to get the service.
You pay your money or not and make your choice, freedom to do what suits you and your pocket.
As far as I am concerned 2 euros or so a week is good value. I get to see what is in my own area and if it pleases me I can see what I want in places of interest on the other side of the world.
Out of interest when was the network last down?
Alan
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Out of interest when was the network last down?
Alan
August 3rd. Over 3 hours.
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Thanks didnt notice. Bet you are glad you have a SBS1 that does not suffer from the problem of networks being down.
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And I'll tell you something for nothing, Tarbat; the PlanePlotter network is never going to be withdrawn because it is the only one that allows users to track non-ADSB aircraft and if BEV were to think of giving up there would be enough people willing to raise the money to buy it from him.
Hmm. Things might well change if, or shall we say when, the Airnav Mlat system comes out. If it works, I think the whole plane plotting market place will change.
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Hmm. Things might well change if, or shall we say when, the Airnav Mlat system comes out. If it works, I think the whole plane plotting market place will change.
If AirNav manage to crack multilateration, and if we can all afford the cost of the new hardware which we now know will be required, then I agree it will be a whole new ball-game.
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Thanks didnt notice. Bet you are glad you have a SBS1 that does not suffer from the problem of networks being down.
I'm glad I have both ANRB and SBS-1 and the PlanePlotter network which is not down as often as the ANRB one. The fact that the PP one also supplies data for non-ADSB aircraft is a real bonus too as my main, but not exclusive, interest is in military aircraft.
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I'm glad I have both ANRB and SBS-1 and the PlanePlotter network which is not down as often as the ANRB one.
That's a very bold claim !! So you don't remember when the PP network was down for hours on end earlier this year, and Bev wasn't even able to login from his travels to fix it. All networks have downtime.......
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Right lets get this back on to subject of the thread, before certain users try and use this thread for there own promotion/agenda which we have all heard before (always the same faces who appear on these threads)
The RadarBox network was the 1st network for ADS-B on the market and is used not only by aviation enthusiasts but also by Professionals. We do our best to get 99.9% up time and the majority of time we beat that.
We are respected company with links with aviation authorities across the world our systems are vetted for security. This is not the case with other services and hence they could disappear as have other addons for other products.
The network is also well subscribed now by customers and we get many who commend us on the service and network. We do our best to give you a network which is a best price as possible without affecting reliability, future additions and maintenance.
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Could I ask what percentage of user base pay for sharing.
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I keep well away from the argument this time.
For there own promotion/agenda
Your learning airnav, well said sir.
S.F
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Could I ask what percentage of user base pay for sharing.
We prefer not to share any numbers. RadarBox Network is the only worldwide professionaly maintained ADS-B network and being used by several major companies. It is being used on the B787 project which clearly shows how reliable it is. By being professionaly maintained we mean that it is here to stay, maintained by a group of aviation professionals and protected by a company which is stable, growing and well maintained - in one word, reliable.
This is one of the reasons more and more users choose RadarBox - full integrated network, no need to use external addons which could cease to exist at anytime.
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Could I ask what percentage of user base pay for sharing.
Like they are going to tell you that!
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I would like to know where Tony Dixon, editor of Airliner World, got his information for the September 2010 page 83 review of ther ANRB. According to his editorial ""If connected to the internet, there are two choices: the ''network'' (ie what other users have picked up and have transmitted online) or what the individual aerial can see. For security reasons, the network data is delayed by 5 minutes (although for a subscription payment, this can be shown in real time). So what exactly is the subscription payment for?
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What would happen if you paid your annual subscription for network access and then everyone decided to switch off their data sharing option?
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What would happen if you paid your annual subscription for network access and then everyone decided to switch off their data sharing option?
Nothing.
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Nothing meaning what exactly?
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ScottecLEMG,
As you say, RadarBox allows you view your local flights picked up from your antenna and flights via the network. The network has two options, real time network or delayed (5 mins) network. When you purchase RadarBox you get delayed network free for year.
Its then up to you whether you want to purchase a network subscription to continue.
If everyone did turn off there sharing option (very unlikely as we have sites as well across the world). There would be not much to see on the network and I am sure we would have some unhappy customers to deal with.
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Thank you Support for that answer. It clears up my question on the subscription service. I am sceptical on your own network coverage. I see very little network traffic outside of Europe so I would be interested in where you have your sites located.
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I see very little network traffic outside of Europe so I would be interested in where you have your sites located.
If it helps, here's what the real-time network map was showing a few moments ago:
(http://www.civilaircraftregisters.org/Mode_S_Resources/Netmap.jpg)
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Like I was saying David, if AirNav have their own sites "across the world" then I think it is kind of quiet out there. It would be interesting to see just what coverage they have with their own systems if all the users did in fact switch off the data sharing option!
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They mainly situated in the US and Europe. We have a few which around the world and some which are tested with clients for a period of time.