AirNav Systems Forum

AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: 9M-ISJ on March 20, 2010, 09:04:56 AM

Title: Database Spring Clean
Post by: 9M-ISJ on March 20, 2010, 09:04:56 AM
Hi,

I have 25 and a half thousand records in my Mylog, and quite a few fail to populate when I run the routine, but I have managed to find aircraft data from elsewhere.

Also I have loads of records in there which need aircraft types changed (currently blank or showing either null or ....)

Plus I have a few 'sore thumbs' such as the new Lufthansa Airbuses showing up as A300s and or 727!

What is the groups feeling concerning a third party app for working with the data (I have too much to do to use the inprogram database editor working cell by cell). I would rather go offline for an hour or so each evening and work in a more friendly (and quicker) application.

I have no knowledge what-so-ever of SQL so would like something simple

Thanks
Paul

Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: tarbat on March 20, 2010, 09:12:00 AM
My strategy is to maintain my Navdata database using SBS-Populate - using GAS data.

Then once a month, I delete all the aircraft data from the MyLog database, just leaving the ModeS hex code.  Then I generate data from the Navdata aircraft table to import into the MyLog aircraft table.  All using SQLite Maestro.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: Blincodave on March 20, 2010, 12:27:47 PM
A third party solution where db updates can be downloaded on a regular basis must be the way to go. A few weeks ago AirNav were promising us news on this front in another thread.

I know ADU are about to launch a Radarbox utility and Aerodata already have one.

I presume and hope Airnav are in discussion with 3rd parties!

Dave
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: DaveReid on March 20, 2010, 12:46:36 PM
A third party solution where db updates can be downloaded on a regular basis must be the way to go. A few weeks ago AirNav were promising us news on this front in another thread.

I know ADU are about to launch a Radarbox utility and Aerodata already have one.

I presume and hope Airnav are in discussion with 3rd parties!

I wouldn't be so sure - it all seems to have gone very quiet on this subject, and as you say the supposedly imminent announcement of a fix has yet to materialise.

This should be a no-brainer  - every time RadarBox picks up a hex code, it queries the AirNav server for aircraft details and photos (unless you have disabled that option). 

Among the advertised RadarBox features is an "accurate aircraft database", so it would seem not unreasonable that RadarBox should display what you're actually picking up rather than claiming it's an aircraft, like the examples above, that any self-respecting enthusiast will tell you has been long since scrapped.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: ACW367 on March 20, 2010, 01:17:37 PM
The reason the long since deceased 727s populate is because there are no photos of the new A320s ecetera in Airliners.net.

I have to be fair to Airnav and say that they have provided the system that gets it right 99% of the time because there is currently no system available from anyone that allows for 100% accuracy, because no-one can has a system to discriminate photos for miscodes where two aircraft use exactly the same code, that is for the air traffic authorities to request that the offending airliner fixes the problem.  All any mode_s logger like airnav can do is note the anomaly.  When two aircraft have used the same registration but there are no photos on the web of the newly registered aircraft there is also not much that can be done by anyone except to accept the old picture and manually update the surrounding info.  You cannot have a system that blocks the photo download until you know that a photo of the new aircraft exists!! 

For the known fleets of registration reuse, Qantas A333, German A319 & A320, just accept the 727/B741 picture, manually copy over the correct details from airframes, this will ensure that the correct details then go into mylog. Then a month or so after new aircraft delivery, check back to Airliners.net to see if a picture of the new airframe has been uploaded.  Once a photo is there simply delete the photo of the retired airframe from the photo folder in windows explorer explorer, delete the details from one field in mylog, then do a mylog populate to trigger a search for a new photo which will be of the new airframe with the correct details.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: Blincodave on March 20, 2010, 01:36:32 PM
I wonder how many users actually utilise the photograph facility anyway? I have it disabled and, frankly can't see the point unless you wanted a photo confirmation of an aircraft that you can only see poorly in the sky.

Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: orkney on March 20, 2010, 01:40:37 PM
I wonder how many users actually utilise the photograph facility anyway? I have it disabled and, frankly can't see the point unless you wanted a photo confirmation of an aircraft that you can only see poorly in the sky.




Hi
Frankly I find the photo facility very interesting and going by a lot of the screenshots people show most people have it turned on.

Andrew
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: Blincodave on March 20, 2010, 02:00:19 PM
Fair enough Andrew. But I do find it very frustrating that such a good product has a db that can be updated by only one of the following:

1. Manual updating - I simply don't have the time or the inclination.
2. Leaving your radarbox on for long stretches to let GAS do its work, but then if you are abroad and use it, you find yourself with unmatched HEX codes because you are away from your normal 'patch'.
3. Subscribe to Aerodata and let their software do it for you in real time.

Dave
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: 9M-ISJ on March 20, 2010, 02:19:12 PM
Hi,

Thanks for the input - I wasnt RB bashing, I love it and I fully understand why the errors creap in.

I just want a way to sort things out.

I shall have a look at the solution given in the first reply.

Thanks
Paul
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: 9M-ISJ on March 20, 2010, 06:15:08 PM
OK,,, fell at the first hurdle with both tasks... The GAS Populate thing, I couldnt work out how to get it to see my data, and then I have no clue at all how to open up anything in SQL Maestro!

Feeling rather thick at the moment
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: eggplant on March 20, 2010, 08:13:51 PM
Rest assured I have the same frustrations, so we must both be thick.
Cheers !
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: tarbat on March 21, 2010, 08:49:38 AM
Try these instructions - http://www.tarbat.gofreeserve.com/instructions.htm

Also:
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=4044.msg40828#msg40828
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=1489.msg31878#msg31878
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: dudbaker on March 21, 2010, 09:14:19 AM
Hi

What I find is that my amendments, to Mylog, are lost next time the aircraft is detected.  Even removing data and leaving an empty box.

Dudley
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: Allocator on March 21, 2010, 09:34:09 AM
The changes you make to MyLog will NOT affect what you see in MyFlights or Network aircraft list.  This data comes from the NavData.db3 database ant NOT MyLog.db3

The MyLog database is populated from the data that is in NavData when the aircraft is detected and in written to MyLog.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: DaveReid on March 21, 2010, 09:46:53 AM
For the known fleets of registration reuse, Qantas A333, German A319 & A320, just accept the 727/B741 picture, manually copy over the correct details from airframes, this will ensure that the correct details then go into mylog. Then a month or so after new aircraft delivery, check back to Airliners.net to see if a picture of the new airframe has been uploaded.  Once a photo is there simply delete the photo of the retired airframe from the photo folder in windows explorer explorer, delete the details from one field in mylog, then do a mylog populate to trigger a search for a new photo which will be of the new airframe with the correct details.

That sounds very complicated, and also completely unnecessary.

It's perfectly feasible to validate whether a photo and aircraft details from airliners.net represents the aircraft in question or a previous use of the same registration.  It's not rocket science.

AirNav are well aware of that - they have simply chosen, to date, not to implement any such validation.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: dudbaker on March 21, 2010, 10:56:48 AM
Allocator

Thanks but I am not worried about My flights or Network.  My concern is:  I update Mylog which resummable updates mylog.db3 then next time the aircaft is detected it deletes my amendment.  Eg, there is ... in a box.  I replace this A64D.  Next time the aircraft is detected ... .  Or even worse if empty then amended becomes empty next time the aircraft is detected.

Dudley
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: Allocator on March 21, 2010, 11:05:18 AM
So why don't you make the change in NavData.db3 using Database Explorer then?  That is where the ... is coming from.

If you then manually delete the ... in the MyLog entry, a MyLog Populate will then write in the correct data that you have entered using Database Explorer.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: abrad41 on March 21, 2010, 11:15:47 AM

Quote
Try these instructions - http://www.tarbat.gofreeserve.com/instructions.htm

May I add to this - tarbat instructions will not work with the latest version of SQlite, What I do is export with the latest version and import with the previous version.

Quote
The MyLog database is populated from the data that is in NavData when the aircraft is detected and in written to MyLog.

Can I remember something about all the fields must be populated in the NavData, including the PT,LK,PT2,LK2 fields for the information not to be over written.

Andy
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: dudbaker on March 21, 2010, 12:02:03 PM
Allocator

I put Database Explorer in Google and came up with pages of them.  Can I use any of them?

Dudley
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: btclarke on March 21, 2010, 12:25:51 PM
How about AirNavSupport give a little tutorial for us?
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: RodBearden on March 21, 2010, 05:00:14 PM
Dudley

We're talking about the Database Explorer that you get when you use RadarBox's File menu and choose Database Explorer there. That's the manual way to get to the NavDatat.db3 file.

Rod
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: dudbaker on March 21, 2010, 05:07:04 PM
Rod

Tried that with the same result.

Thanks

Dudley
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: Allocator on March 21, 2010, 05:27:54 PM
Rod

Tried that with the same result.

Thanks

Dudley

Have you watched the AirNav video on Manual Database updates?  via the button at the top right of the Forum.

You can also right click on the aircraft in the list and go straight to that aircraft in the database.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: btclarke on March 21, 2010, 05:59:44 PM
Have you watched the AirNav video on Manual Database updates?  via the button at the top right of the Forum.

Thanks for that! Is there any way to update the stored records?
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: Allocator on March 21, 2010, 06:04:57 PM
If you mean the MyLog records, yes.

Using the MyLog window and the edit/delete buttons to change the fields.

Or, as I mentioned previously - If you then manually delete a field in the MyLog entry, a MyLog Populate will then write in the correct data that you have entered using Database Explorer.  Try it with one record to see how it works.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: dudbaker on March 22, 2010, 10:01:56 AM
Hi

The video, highlighted by Allocator, makes play of selecting Show All before coming out of Database explorer.  I have tried that.  I need to detect some aircaft to prove the results.

Dudley
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: dudbaker on March 22, 2010, 11:50:59 AM
Hi

Detected ZH888 twice today.  Both occasions C130J became C130 in Mylog.  Database Explorer remained C130J.

Dudley
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: DaveReid on March 22, 2010, 11:59:33 AM
If it's of any interest to anyone, here's the utility I use on those occasions where I need to make manual updates to the NavData.db3 database:

(http://www.civilaircraftregisters.org/Mode_S_Resources/AirNav%20NavData%20Update%201.jpg)

(http://www.civilaircraftregisters.org/Mode_S_Resources/AirNav%20NavData%20Update%202.jpg)

If there's sufficient interest from users who want to manually update their NavData, now that AirNav seem to have decided to do nothing about the database from their end, I'll look at making the utility available for download.

Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: AirNav Support on March 22, 2010, 12:29:29 PM
DaveReid,

Just because we haven't bought your services doesn't mean we have decided to do nothing. We have stated clearly more than once that we are looking into this and will have news soon.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: DaveReid on March 22, 2010, 01:21:00 PM
Just because we haven't bought your services doesn't mean we have decided to do nothing. We have stated clearly more than once that we are looking into this and will have news soon.

Fine, I stand corrected. 

In the meantime, I'll do my best to assist users who are endeavouring to keep their NavData.db3 up-to-date themselves from external sources.  Presumably you don't have any problem with that.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: eggplant on March 24, 2010, 08:36:33 PM
Hi Dave,

I manually update my db but it seems to be a never ending time consuming task. I would be interested in any utility that you may have to make the job easier.

Thanks
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: Blincodave on March 24, 2010, 09:14:20 PM
Aer
Hi Dave,

I manually update my db but it seems to be a never ending time consuming task. I would be interested in any utility that you may have to make the job easier.

Thanks

The two utilities I know of (Aerodata and ADU) require a subscription to their databases.

Dave
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: DaveReid on March 24, 2010, 11:10:31 PM
The two utilities I know of (Aerodata and ADU) require a subscription to their databases.

The utility I'm referring to (see above screenshots) isn't planned to be chargeable.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: Geot on March 26, 2010, 12:06:47 PM
Dave - I would very much like to obtain a copy of your Utility as the ANRB update process is very cumbersome and slow. With AirNav using a photographic site to update a DB, (what logic!), my ANRB DB is constantly being corrupted with erroneous data. Yesterday I got an Air Canada DC-8 come up, a couple of weeks ago, it was an AC L-1011 - both long, long gone from the fleet. Those standout easliy but there are many biz and others which are less obvious; at an airport I can see from my Aerodata Analyser, (and confirm with my eyes), that the type that ANRB shows is in a fact a completely different type of aircraft, quite common with bizjets, but how much else is slipping through.

GeoT
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: DaveReid on March 26, 2010, 03:16:52 PM
Dave - I would very much like to obtain a copy of your Utility as the ANRB update process is very cumbersome and slow. With AirNav using a photographic site to update a DB, (what logic!), my ANRB DB is constantly being corrupted with erroneous data. Yesterday I got an Air Canada DC-8 come up, a couple of weeks ago, it was an AC L-1011 - both long, long gone from the fleet. Those standout easliy but there are many biz and others which are less obvious; at an airport I can see from my Aerodata Analyser, (and confirm with my eyes), that the type that ANRB shows is in a fact a completely different type of aircraft, quite common with bizjets, but how much else is slipping through.

I'm currently working on an additional facility to keep a transaction log of updates made by users.

The idea is that if and when the AirNav server overwrites your painstaking updates with incorrect, out-of-date or plain blank information (see www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=4602.0) then you will have the ability to re-apply your updates with a single mouse-click.

Yes, I know it shouldn't be necessary, but we have to work with the current system until such time as a more intelligent server update architecture is implemented.
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: Chris11 on June 09, 2010, 10:19:05 AM
Anything happening here?
Title: Re: Database Spring Clean
Post by: DaveReid on June 09, 2010, 11:47:34 AM
Anything happening here?

Well it's been overtaken by events, in particular by AirNav's promise of an imminent update to the server architecture that will see an end to users' updates being overwritten without asking.

I don't know what stage that's at, but I would guess it will be released soon:

We have stated clearly more than once that we are looking into this and will have news soon.