AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: axlman on January 10, 2008, 12:33:28 AM
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Hi everybody.
I would like to know which data, exactly, can be received with AirNavRadar about aircrafts that don't have ADS-B but only mode-s.
Thanks in advance for the answers.
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Hi everybody.
I would like to know which data, exactly, can be received with AirNavRadar about aircrafts that don't have ADS-B but only mode-s.
Thanks in advance for the answers.
Take a look at the new RadarBox V1.4 manual which covers what you will see with and without ADS-B. Although V1.4 is not yet released, the information in the new manual also applies to the current release version. See pages 6 and 75.
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=394.0
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Mode-S aircraft show the following:
Mode-S , Aircraft Reg (Derived from Mode-S), Flight Number, Altitude, Change in Altitude, Squawk, Speed.
Hope that helps.
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Take a look at the new RadarBox V1.4 manual which covers what you will see with and without ADS-B.
I read the manual and, see pag 5/7, it's written:
ADS-B Background
Putting it in a simple form, AirNav RadarBox consists of a hardware receiver that decodes ADS-B data and sends it to your computer where a software processes it and shows it on 3D interface
What Will I See?
The ADS-B equipment which generates the signals which are detected and displayed by RadarBox, are fitted to most modern airliners and cargo aircraft. ADS-B is not yet mandatory, but as airspace becomes even more crowded, much more use will be made of such modern technology to enhance flight safety. Aircraft with full ADS-B will show in the RadarBox aircraft list and on the map screen.
What will not show on RadarBox?
Older aircraft, or small light aircraft and helicopters might not be fitted with ADS-B equipment and so will not appear in the aircraft list or on the map screen.
so I understood that the AirNav could not detect aircrafts without ADS-B at all.
Mode-s does not give the position, so an aircraft with only mode-s does not appear on the map, OK.
But, excuse me for my slowness, does it appear in the aircraft list or not?
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I can only answer from personal experience, so here are the sort of aircraft I have seen in the aircraft list, but not on the map:
- Some older Airliners - often propeller aircraft
- Military aircraft - mostly transports, but some fighter type aircraft and helicopters
- Air Ambulance helicopters
- Police helicopters
- Some Private light aircraft like C172, R44 helicopters etc
Aircraft I have not seen in the list or on the map:
- The majority of military fast-jet aircraft
- The majority of light aircraft and helicopters
If you are interested in airliners, then RadarBox is for you.
If you live near a small airfield with only light aircraft, then you almost certainly not see these in the list or on the map.
If you live near a Military base with fast-jet aircraft, these will probably not show in the list or on the map.
What type of aircraft are you interested in, and what do you hope to get from RadarBox - if you tell me that, then I can tell you how successful you will be. However, it isn't possible to say EXACTLY which aircraft you will pick up, but more and more aircraft are being fitted with full ADS-B every day.
See the screen capture below. All these aircraft are in the Live list, but are not plotting on the map (shown by not having the "Globe" symbol). Some of them will plot later, as often the position data appears after the aircraft appears in the list. You can see that there are all sorts of aircraft in the list.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2363/2183901352_204daaab2e.jpg)
All the best
Allocator
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I see F-15's pop up fairly regularly in a friends SBS-1 logs. Is this just from Mode-S data?
CK
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I see F-15's pop up fairly regularly in a friends SBS-1 logs. Is this just from Mode-S data?
CK
I guess so. I get C17, KC135, F3 Tornado, A10, AWACS, Gazelle Heli, VC10, Tristar etc in the RadarBox list. I've never picked up an F15 here in the UK on either the SBS-1 or RadarBox even when I know they are in my area as I've heard them on the radio.
However, some show up in the list and on the map - getting this one right now!
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2202/2183922016_cf6cc3db35_o.jpg)
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What type of aircraft are you interested in, and what do you hope to get from RadarBox - if you tell me that, then I can tell you how successful you will be. However, it isn't possible to say EXACTLY which aircraft you will pick up, but more and more aircraft are being fitted with full ADS-B every day.
Thanks for the answer.
My question comes from a discussion with a guy:
— he says that the AirNav ever detects all the civil airliners and put them on the list, because the AirNav can ever detect ADS-B and mode-s: so, he argues, if an aircraft is not detected by AirNav, that aircraft is certainly a military one
— reading the instruction, I rather suspect that the AirNav does not ever detect and put on the list the airliners with only mode-s: so if an aircraft is not detected by AirNav, it could be a normal civilian airliner
Which one is right?
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Over to you AirNav Support :-)
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Hi axlman,
Bit confused by your last post but anyway:
1.) RadarBox can detect ADS-B and Mode-S aircraft
2.) Only ADS-B Aircraft can be tracked on the map the others will be displayed on the aircraft list only.
Any aircraft can either have ADS-B, Mode-S or nothing installed regardless of whether they are military or commercial.
Many civil airlines with older aircraft won't have Mode-S or ADS-B but they are civil. There are also a few rare cases of military jets having ADS-B.
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Many civil airlines with older aircraft won't have Mode-S or ADS-B but they are civil. There are also a few rare cases of military jets having ADS-B.
Perfect.
So, if the AirNav does not detect an aircraft, it could be a civilian airliner without ADS-B and without mode-s: it's not necessarily a military airplane.
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Correct. However with airlines adding at least Mode-S to there aircraft and new aircraft having ADS-B installed as default this is becoming a rarer event.
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Thanks very much for the answers and for the patience.
English is not my mother-tongue, so I always afraid to misunderstand.
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Hi there. Thank you for information. Anyway I cannot see tankers during their chemicals clandestine operations over my city (Sanremo). This is a very interesting question...
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1.) RadarBox can detect ADS-B and Mode-S aircraft
2.) Only ADS-B Aircraft can be tracked on the map the others will be displayed on the aircraft list only.
Can I clarify. Do non-ADS-B aircraft show altitude and squawk in the aircraft list? Like these Tornado F3s:
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9151/basestationhh7.th.jpg) (http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=basestationhh7.jpg)
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Correct Tarbat, that information is displayed.
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Hi Tarbat!
The answer is yes - not quite as impressive as your Tornado list screenshot, but it does prove the point. I don't pick up many F3's in my part of the world, but I'm sure if these aircraft are detected then you would get the ones that you are interested in!
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1017/1048145657_855902c184.jpg)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1123/894697708_c5429a8e47.jpg)
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1140/895056297_876bbcfed9.jpg)
All the best
Allocator
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Thanks AirNav Support and Allocator. All I need now is an announcement from Airnav on the ongoing costs of network access after the first year to take the plunge and buy a Radarbox, and fill in that big gap in coverage over the far north of Scotland!
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Thanks AirNav Support and Allocator. All I need now is an announcement from Airnav on the ongoing costs of network access after the first year to take the plunge and buy a Radarbox, and fill in that big gap in coverage over the far north of Scotland!
Tarbat,
While you are thinking about it, you can read the new users manual for V1.4 (due for release shortly) here:
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=394.0
Note the bit about the SQL database and the BaseStation database import fuction :-)
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Hi Tarbat,
Its not for want of trying - to fill in the Big Gap I mean.......generally less than 20% of the contacts are ADS-B...really frustrating with all Heli/SAR traffic !
Regards
Bill
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As a newbie I am still slightly puzzled by one thing. I can understand military a/c and even some bizjets not using ADS-B so as not to divulge their position. I understand Airbus and Boeing have fitted ADS-B as standard for several years and clearly many airlines have retro-fitted it to the older a/c in their fleets. But why does an airline like Flybe not use it on any aircraft (using mode-s instead) even on their new-build Embraers and Dash 8s?
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Maybe they cant afford it - or just dont want everyone knowing what they are up to :-)
Seriously - It may be difficult to fit the kit to Dash 8's and I am sure that to retrofit the kit is more expensive than having it delivered from the factory fitted. Also BA still have some B733's not fitted and the same with other "major" companies.....
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Thanks roadrunner - sorry for not replying sooner, away on business in Amsterdam. Ran the system for 12 hours last Saturday and although 1700 a/c went into Mylog on the day, I noted not one single ATR, Dash 8, Embraer of any model nor any Canadair CRJ using ADS-B although plenty of each using mode-s. And the only bizjets using ADS-B were all Gulfstreams. Makes me suspect that it's the aircraft (even new build like Lufthansa's CRJ9s) that are not fitted with it rather than individual operators choosing not to use it ....?
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It is a mixture. I live near Luton - good for bizz jets and what you say about Gulfstreams is correct, they are probably in the majority but I have seen Citations, and Hawkers, plus surpise of the lot, a Yak-42 using ADS-B.
No doubt things will continue to improve but until it becomes mandatory (if ever) to fit the kit, we will have to make the most of it.
If you are close to an airport, it is possible to connect whats in the list with just a height by using this as a guide against the ILS and radio messages. I am able to tie-up most in-bounds to Luton.
Have fun
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And as I read your post, FJF50 F-GSPA is using ADS-B crossing Compton descending westbound. More than happy to have my theories proved wrong! And tied up 2 Flybe off Southampton this morning on the basis of cruising height.
Definately having lots of fun with the box - best Chrissie present from the wife ever!